Mancuso: Santana Comes Up Aces In Mets Win

New York – Joey Votto swung, missed and struck out off a Johan Santana fastball in the first inning.  The Cincinatti Reds would strand Brandon Phillips at third who led off the game with a double. Santana would only get better as the game went along, because his fastball was that good and it allowed his other pitches to work Tuesday evening at steamy Citi Field.

Santana, (6-5) who has been struggling got the Reds to swing and miss, also getting them to hit the ball to center.  In the end it was a complete game shutout thrown by Santana, a 3-0 win, and in the process the Mets discovered that he also can contribute to the lineup.

The Mets pitching ace hit his first career home run in the third inning off Reds rookie pitcher Matt Maloney That got cheers from the crowd and also a coronation of sorts from his teammates in the dugout. “I hit it and started running,” Santana said about the home run. “I’m on the board. At least I hit one.”

It was a 12- pitch at bat for Santana. The home run ball banged off the foul pole and Santana gave his team a 1-0 lead they would never relinquish. Santana had the fastball, as well as the changeup and breaking ball working to perfection.

“I felt better throwing my fastball and it makes my other pitches better,” said Santana who won one game in his last seven starts. After the Phillips hit in the first, he would not allow another until Orlando Cabrera singled in the sixth.

The key was the fastball. It has always been a vintage pitch that has lost some velocity. But this night, Santana was throwing hard and had the command. He would allow three hits, walked three, and struck out five in throwing the Mets’ second complete- game shutout of the season.

And it wasn’t until the ninth inning before Mets manager Jerry Manuel contemplated taking Santana out of the game. But he let him finish off the Reds after a brief visit to the mound. Scott Rolen singled with one out, and then left fielder Jason Bay dropped a Jay Bruce fly ball for an error.

Bay snapped a personnel string of 263 games of errorless ball and also drove in two of the Mets runs as he continues his resurgence at the plate. As to what was said at the mound, Santana said to Manuel, “I’ll finish it, simple.”

And finish it he did. Jonny Gomes lined out and Drew Stubbs ended the game on a ground out force. “I wanted him to hear him tell me that he wanted to finish it,” explained Manuel about his visit that got some boos from the remaining 27,473 fans that braved the game time temperature of 96 degrees.

“I hate to remove a guy because of a defensive mistake,” added Manuel who said he expects big things from Santana in the second half of the season. “You see a little more in the fastball. You saw it challenging Brandon Phillips,” he said about Santana retiring the Reds .307 leadoff hitter to fly out three times to center and right.

Ready in the pen was Frankie Rodriguez the Mets stopper with 20 saves, but, as of late, having trouble closing the door. In the end, he wasn’t needed. “Of course I know what type of competitor he is and it paid off,” said Rodriguez about Santana completing the game.

Santana got his home run ball for keeps and is undefeated in four career starts against the Reds. A win for the Mets also that kept them two games in back of first place Atlanta. For Santana, even without great stuff he proves to be a competitor.

Now that the stuff is back, he also has the bat to go with it.

NOTES FROM CITI FIELD:  It was the 45th home run by a Mets pitcher in their history and first since John Maine did it against Pittsburgh on July 24, 2007 at Shea Stadium…  The three hits tied the fewest Santana has allowed in a complete game, his seventh career complete-game shutout, and the second Mets pitcher to throw a complete-game shutout and hit a home run in the same game. The last to do that, Pete Falcone on September 29, 1981 over the Phillies 7-0 also at Shea…

Jose Reyes returned to the lineup after missing six games with a sore right oblique, finishing 2-for-4 with a run scored. The Mets improved to 30-9 when Reyes scores a run… It was the Mets 12th shutout of the season which tied San Diego for most in baseball…

Oliver Perez threw 5.2 innings, allowing two runs, two hits and three walks and striking out seven in his second rehabilitation start for St. Lucie (A) of the Florida State League… Final game of the series is this evening with Bronson Arroyo (8-4) on the mound for the Reds opposing lefthander Jonathan Niese (6-2) for New York.

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Posted under Brandon Phillips, Breaking Ball, Changeup, Cincinatti Reds, Complete Game, Dugout, Fastball, Foul Pole, Jason Bay, Joey Votto, Johan Santana, Left Fielder, Mancuso, Matt Maloney, New York Mets, Ninth Inning, Orlando Cabrera, Pitches, Rich Mancuso, Rookie Pitcher, Scott Rolen, Top Story, Tuesday Evening

This post was written by Rich Mancuso on July 7, 2010

170 Comments so far

  1. TJ September 15, 2008 6:18 pm

    Wasn’t Pedro getting it done for the Mets in ’05/’06 with his fastball primarily in the 88-89 range though? It seems more like he’s lost his command.

  2. John Delcos September 15, 2008 6:21 pm

    TJ: That was three years and a rotator cuff surgery ago. Both command and velocity are off. I’m not saying he might not have it on a given night. I’m just not counting on it like before.-JD

  3. tomg September 15, 2008 6:25 pm

    Pedro is done, he should retire.

  4. TJ September 15, 2008 6:27 pm

    Oh most definitely but I believe that velocity used to work for him. I think it’s more a problem of command. Perhaps movement? Is his fastball a flat and lifeless 88 post-surgery as opposed to one with good movement? Either way I anticipate Pedro hanging up his cleats after this season. I can’t imagine him to be the type to continue on like this.

  5. edfever September 15, 2008 6:34 pm

    JD- there’s a couple veteran guys who were called up that Manuel won’t even look at – I’m not saying their the answer but at least give them a chance- throw to one batter or get an at bat….

    Ramon Martinez – could help at 2B with Easley down and Castillo struggling

    Al Reyes and Ricardo Rincon are veteran who might help in relief

    Why havent even sniffed some work….

  6. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 6:51 pm

    I totally agree with Ed.
    Whay has Jerry Manuel had a “refuse to use” policy with veteran Al Reyes and rookie Bobby Parnell?
    And a larger question: Why was Luis Ayala even used on Saturday night with a five-run lead?
    Who knows if the unnecessary work was a factor yesterday, but you have to get bullpen guys a rest whenever you can.
    And while Ayala gets the lion’s share of the blame for yesterday, if Pedro Feliciano doesn’t allow two more runs, we would’ve had a fighting chance down 5-4.

  7. John Delcos September 15, 2008 6:51 pm

    edfever: There’s a reason why they aren’t getting any time. Talent has a lot to do with it.-JD

  8. David September 15, 2008 6:54 pm

    Gil: I think you’re final sentence captured the Bullpen’s biggest problem. It always seems like when they blow it they seem to not be able to stop the bleeding.

  9. edfever September 15, 2008 6:59 pm

    Fair enough….

    I wouldn’t even give Pedro a minor league deal let alone what he’ll get 2-3 yrs… Yes, I think he’s done but more importantly in name alone I think he gives them a false sense of security

  10. Tiffany September 15, 2008 7:01 pm

    Here’s the thing: Pedro was much, much better last year, when coming right off the surgery, than he’s been this year. They say command is supposed to be the toughest thing to recover after arm surgery, but it just doesn’t make sense that his command would get worse over time, especially when it was so good last year.

  11. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:04 pm

    JD: How can Al Reyes and Parnell shed a “limited talent” label if they’re not given any opportunities to prove doubters otherwise.
    Are the Mets seriously thinking neither one of those guys is as talented as, say, Aaron Heilman?

  12. John Delcos September 15, 2008 7:08 pm

    Tiffany: Sometimes a pitcher hits the wall the second year after surgery.-JD

  13. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 7:12 pm

    We don’t see the bullpen sessions. We don’t have a clue as to what they are showing. With a bullpen as mediocre as ours, one has to give the staff the benefit of the doubt. If someone isn’t being used, they must have nothing.

  14. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:18 pm

    Why are our hitters not laying off Lannan’s changeups and sliders?

  15. John Delcos September 15, 2008 7:19 pm

    Gil: Good movement. Wright was totally fooled.-JD

  16. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:20 pm

    Harry: I’d agree with you, except Heilman has had nothing all year and he’s being used.

  17. David September 15, 2008 7:20 pm

    Overcompensating for an awful bullpen and trying to hit 8 run homeruns in the first inning.

  18. Annie Savoy - September 15, 2008 7:21 pm

    Does Pedro have anything left?

    Tonight the Mets send out one of the smartest pitchers now working. And tonight he will be relying more on his brain than his body. If anyone can pull this off – it’s Pedro.

    Let’s hope he can because if this season doesn’t end up in October for the Mets, there will be reverberations all the way from Shea to Citi Field.

  19. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 7:22 pm

    Today is 15 Sept. Heilman has been in 2 games this month. That’s pretty much the sign of a buried pitcher Gil.

  20. edfever September 15, 2008 7:23 pm

    Didn’t take long to strand a runner in scoring position, Wright was swinging at pitches that bounced

  21. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:25 pm

    Harry: Those are two games too many, as far as I’m concerned.

  22. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 7:26 pm

    To TJ: Pedro was throwing in the low 90′s in 05 and early 06. He dropped into the 80′s before starting his stints on the DL.

  23. edfever September 15, 2008 7:27 pm

    That should answer the question about Pedro and this team…

  24. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:27 pm

    Get Pedro outta there.
    This is worse than Willie Mays stumbling around in the outfield in the ’73 Series, fighting the sun.

  25. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 7:29 pm

    How about Yost getting the axe this late in the year!!!! He should have been fired the same time Randolph should have been fired. Oct 2007.

  26. Kevin September 15, 2008 7:29 pm

    They have no fear facing him, its like they know he can’t get them out.

  27. David September 15, 2008 7:30 pm

    Biggest difference so far in the first is the Nats are laying off the shit pitches that the mets chased in the first.

  28. John Delcos September 15, 2008 7:31 pm

    That could have been a big inning if Castillo didn’t make that play. But, the ball was ripped. That was a little bit of luck.-JD

  29. alex September 15, 2008 7:33 pm

    yes, that inning could have been much worse, but regardless it doesn’t look like the old goat is going to make it very far in this game.

  30. David September 15, 2008 7:34 pm

    If the lineup relaxes they will be fine. Lannan probably threw 3-4 pitches over the plate in the first. They just need to relax and take what he gives them.

  31. edfever September 15, 2008 7:35 pm

    With the Offense swinging at pitches bouncing in the dirt doesn’t sound like a good mix

  32. edfever September 15, 2008 7:39 pm

    Bad sign fate against us…..

  33. John Delcos September 15, 2008 7:40 pm

    Thanks folks. The blog has been up a little over a week and we just passed 1,000 comments. I am most grateful. Thanks.-JD

  34. alex September 15, 2008 7:42 pm

    ugh. i really can’t stomach watching castillo bat much longer. his approach is just awful.

  35. John Delcos September 15, 2008 7:42 pm

    Pedro needs a quick inning to hang around. He threw 23 in the first inning.-JD

  36. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:42 pm

    This is not looking good at all.
    The home plate ump has a strike zone as wide as a movie theater screen.
    This looks like a long *&%$#$% night…

  37. John Delcos September 15, 2008 7:47 pm

    Pedro needed that inning. Fast and efficient. Could buy him some extra time.-JD

  38. edfever September 15, 2008 7:47 pm

    JD- ramon has to look better then this guy hes toast as much as Pedro

  39. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 7:49 pm

    Gil: its only 1-0. There’s plenty of time to get the lead and give it back over and over and over. We have no pen. They have no pen. We have some hitters they don’t have hitters. We can still win 13-12 easy. or not!

  40. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:52 pm

    Annie: Did JD give you my email? Please contact me.

  41. David September 15, 2008 7:53 pm

    Well they got that one back the question is hoq quickly will the nats get it back !

  42. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 7:54 pm

    Gift run: Guzman would have had Schneider easy. Not impressed with the job Acta has done. No talent for sure, but fundamentals last week and this don’t seem to exist.

  43. John Delcos September 15, 2008 7:54 pm

    Annie/Gil: I’ll take care of it.-JD

  44. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 7:57 pm

    Harry: It may be early tonight, but this Mets team hasn’t yet proven to me that this isn’t 2007 all over again.
    I sat in Shea last September on several days and nights against the Phillies, Nats and Marlins and whatever way the Mets could find a way to lose, they did.
    And I watched them play the Nats and Marlins on TV and they’d find inventive ways to lose then.
    Like dealing with a cheating spouse (and thank goodness I’m not married to one who has or will and I definitely won’t), the Mets have my unconditional love, but after last year, not my complete trust.
    They have to earn that.

  45. alex September 15, 2008 7:59 pm

    best metaphor ever.

  46. Dan Gurney September 15, 2008 8:01 pm

    Is the attendance at Gnat games what the Mets and Yankees will be a few years from now-lots of high priced empty seats at new stadia? Probably not, both are rich to sign enough free agents to be respectable
    John, I got around to listening to you and Joe McDonald podcast. Is that the Mets GM from the 1970s? Also could you talk more about the season and less about possible off season moves? I know, “every one is a critic, if you don’t like it, do you own podcast.” But I did enjoy it and look forward to the next.
    As Joe Beningo said this morning on WFAN “Back when Willie Randolph was fired with a 33-34 record, any Mets fan would have gladly signed up for being in first place by a game on September 15″.

  47. Anselmo September 15, 2008 8:01 pm

    JD – Okay, with regard to the bullpen, I’ll accept (grudgingly) that the Al Reyes and Parnells of the world are not going to get the call because they may not be up to the job and Jerry has seen nothing from them to warrant his confidence late in a close (or, apparently, any) game. But with Easley on the shelf, why not use Argenis Reyes instead of Castillo? Hadn’t he shown enough? Castillo has “Heilman face”….meaning that – to me – he has no confidence at the plate.

  48. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:02 pm

    Big break there. Probably saved Pedro a half-dozen pitches.-JD

  49. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 8:03 pm

    We all saw last year Gil. I’ll agree with you about the trust, but with these two pens, its like an nBA game, being up or down by 20 in the first 3 quarters doesn’t mean anything.

  50. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:03 pm

    Thanks, Alex.

  51. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:04 pm

    Dan: Sure thing. Thanks for the suggestion. There will be plenty of time to deal with the offseason later. No, he is not the former Mets GM. We’ll be on again tomorrow at 5:30 p.m.-JD

  52. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:05 pm

    JD- gotta love peter angelos owning MASN. i finally get to see a Met game on tv. nats announcers are atrocious though. schneider comes thru early…wright has looked bad in both at bats

  53. alex September 15, 2008 8:05 pm

    i disagree with the assessment of parnell. he hasn’t been given a chance to pitch in a major league game, and thus we (or manuel for that matter) don’t have any idea as to what he can do.

    al reyes is just a washed up cast away retread who didn’t do anything impressive in the minors when he came over to our organization.

    but parnell is supposed to be one of the best pitching prospects we have.

    i’m not suggesting they throw him into a big spot. but there have been missed opportunities to give him a chance to pitch an inning.

    look how niese did given the chance, who knows, parnell might be able to help out even if only in certain spots.

  54. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:06 pm

    Anselmo: Good question. The thinking is they’ll go with the veteran Castillo in the playoffs over A. Reyes and need to get him going. That’s why he’s getting the bulk of the at-bats.-JD

  55. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:07 pm

    beltran looks very much at ease in the batter’s box.. now come on delgado

  56. alex September 15, 2008 8:07 pm

    of course that is flawed logic if castillo’s continuing struggles play some part in the mets inability to make the playoffs.

  57. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:08 pm

    Alex: Parnell is part of the future, and no, we don’t know what he can do. I don’t think they want to learn at this stage of the season.-JD

  58. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:09 pm

    Alex: Good counter argument on Castillo.-JD

  59. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:10 pm

    JD/Alex: people are making it sound like A. Reyes has been hitting well. he has been an auto out also and his range maybe slightly better than castillo but not a drastic difference.

  60. David September 15, 2008 8:13 pm


    Kind of beat me to the punch there on A.Reyes. The real answer would be to put Murphy there but thats an experiment that wont and probably shouldnt be tried at this point.

  61. Anselmo September 15, 2008 8:13 pm

    Uh-oh. What if Castillo continues for the next two weeks to show he shouldn’t have gotten an invitation let alone a four year deal and his lack of anything at the plate causes the team to miss October? Think the “let’s use him so he’s up and running for October” rationale could be really dicey. I thought Argenis looked fine, never as lost as #1.

  62. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:15 pm

    David: I’d like to see what Murphy can do there. Maybe they’ll send him to the Arizona Fall League.-JD

  63. Tiffany September 15, 2008 8:16 pm

    Joe McDonald? He was the only GM in Met history to trade for Pepe Mangual. ‘Nuff said.

  64. alex September 15, 2008 8:16 pm

    i never suggested argenis was hitting well, only that castillo moves like my grandfather.

    but, still, by your assessment reyes should be in there over castillo. if the offense is a push and reyes has slightly better defense and is young and healthy then he should be playing.

    but, if were up to me i probably would have given murphy a start or two at second and then had ar. reyes/castillo replace him late for defense (especially say when a guy like perez or santana are pitching — guys who are generally getting most of their outs via k or fly ball).

  65. Annie Savoy - September 15, 2008 8:17 pm

    Now we’ve got the heart of the batting order coming up – so far, so good with Pedro.

  66. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 8:17 pm

    You want Murphy to learn second base send him to the Instructional league at the end of the year.

  67. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:17 pm

    castillo can still string together an at bat. (hopefully) ha

  68. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:19 pm

    it just doesnt seem castillo gives it his all…going back on that bloop, just doesnt seem he puts it all out there.

  69. David September 15, 2008 8:19 pm

    Dumb pitching by Pedro. You have milledge 1-2 and he’s proven to be one of the worst off speed hitters in baseball so you groove him a fastball. Makes no sense.

  70. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:19 pm

    Harry: These kinds of games didn’t have to be this way.
    Omar Minaya has had two years to fix the bullpen mess and he has failed to do that.
    After ’06, he lets two successful relievers walk — Darren Oliver and Chad Bradford — and overpays in years and money for Scott Schoeneweis and foolishly does the same for a confessed steroid cheat in Guillermo Mota.
    After ’07, when Jorge Sosa proved he was part of the problem, Omar’s solution was to re-sign him.
    Then the Phillies landed Brad Lidge for a song, meaning the Mets could’ve snagged him when Houston made him available.
    He brings in Matt Wise and then when he goes down, doesn’t acquire an adequate replacement.
    Knowing Duaner Sanchez was still on the road to recovery, did Omar deal for an adequate stand-in for him?
    If your roof is leaking, what do you do?
    Find a stopgap, then exhaustively research and come up with someone qualified to get the job done.
    That’s common sense, but Minaya hasn’t exercised it in dealing with the bullpen.
    It astounds and infuriates me that in two years Minaya hasn’t sufficiently made moves to strengthen this team’s most glaring weakness.

  71. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 8:21 pm

    Neither one of them should bat 7th ever, so it really doesn’t matter who plays.

  72. Dan Gurney September 15, 2008 8:21 pm

    Who was the sports writer who said Pepe Mangual could drop anything he got his glove on, Jack Lang?

  73. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:22 pm

    Jim: Yeah, I wasn’t crazy about how Castillo went out there.-JD

  74. Annie Savoy - September 15, 2008 8:23 pm

    John – I know Joe McDonald is a hockey reporter, but I don’t remember if he ever played – did he?

  75. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:26 pm

    maybe A Reyes should be in there…i dont think we would be ?ing his effort

  76. edfever September 15, 2008 8:26 pm

    this is a game they couldn’t to trial at any point… and the offense looks pathetic

  77. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 8:28 pm

    Gil: Yapping to me about Omar’s failings is preaching to the choir. But I disagree on a couple of your points. Lidge was traded for Bourn (?) who at least in Philadelphia was thought highly of. And Matt Wise was a freakin bum and him getting injured was a break for the Mets.
    And most importantly of all where are all the fair weather Jet fans? Losing to some guy who wasn’t a starter in college is pretty patWednesday losing to a guy who couldn’t even get Olympians out.

  78. Jay L September 15, 2008 8:29 pm

    They’ve gotta get Castillo back up to the two-hole. He’s useless at the bottom of the order.

  79. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:30 pm

    the mets need this game so bad and appear to be goign thru the motions. not good

  80. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 8:30 pm

    You are so right Jay L.!!!!!! If he were on the Cards he’d be the 9 hitter.

  81. Annie Savoy - September 15, 2008 8:33 pm


    This is a bit OT, but yesterday in the NY Times Sports section, Dave Anderson began his column “A Team With No Tomorrow and a Stadium With A Past” with these words:
    “The Yankees, like elephants, have come home to die”.

    Gotta love sportswriters. They take no prisoners.

  82. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:34 pm

    I’m not yapping, Harry. I’m responding to one of your points, telling me to chill and expect a seesaw affair like we saw last week.
    If the Phillies got Lidge for Bourn, we could’ve landed him for Endy Chavez.
    And as far as the NFL goes, can’t help ya on where the Jets fans are. I’m a Dallas Cowboy guy.

  83. Jay L September 15, 2008 8:36 pm

    i wouldn’t mind castillo hitting ninth to get the double leadoff hitter thing going. If easley doesn’t come back, they cant keep doing castillo-schneider-pitcher. It’s an awful offensive strategy

  84. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:36 pm

    Dallas Cowboys? C’mon, Gil. Say it ain’t so. You just want to look at Jessica Simpson in the luxury box, right?-JD

  85. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:40 pm

    Actually, I wish Romo was dating Eva Mendes, so I could look at HER in the luxury box. ;)
    I actually came to love the ‘Boys as a kid when I was watching one of their games in the mid-’70s, saw them getting slaughtered and felt sorry enough for them to adopt them.
    After that, Roger Staubach, Drew Pearson and most of all, Tony Dorsett became my football heroes.

  86. John Delcos September 15, 2008 8:41 pm

    Good call, Gil. Personally, I liked Carrie Underwood.-JD

  87. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:44 pm

    so lethargic..not good

  88. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 8:47 pm

    1. You’ve really lost me being a Cowboy fan. If you root NY you got to root NY all the way. That’s really bad—Cowboys.
    As much as I hate Eagles I hope they whip Tony badly, because we all know Donovan won’t play a whole season.
    2. Get real saying we could have gotten Lidge for Chavez. Chavez is a career backup. Bourn has lightning speed and was thought to be a very good prospect as a lead off man. Kind of like Chavez was thougth off maybe 6-7 years ago. You probably could have gotten Lidge for a Milledge but not for a Chavez. The Philadelphia talking heads did not like the trade. They wanted Bourn in CF vice Victorino.

  89. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:48 pm

    Where the hell was that 2-2 pitch to Milledge?
    Do we need to sic the Ligue boys out on Laz Diaz?

  90. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:50 pm

    Harry: Where was Bourn after his fast start?
    Back on the bench.
    And as for rooting for NY teams, I’m an original New Yorker, but now that I live in Savannah does that mean I should be a Braves fan?
    C’mon Harry!
    This is America, where we love our freedom of choice.
    How ’bout ‘dem Cowboys?

  91. edfever September 15, 2008 8:52 pm

    I’ll be very surprised they win this and if this doesnt look like the collapse then your kidding yourself…. there finding ways to lose to inferior teams

  92. alex September 15, 2008 8:55 pm


  93. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 8:55 pm

    Waht he did is not the point. He was a prospect, who didn’t pan out this year. Chavez was not a prospect. The fact that you don’t know this does not make it not so. You are evaluating a trade a year after it was done. Was Bourn a dud so far, Yes. Does that negate the point that in no way would you have gotten Lidge for Chavez, No.
    Root for whomever you want. You obviosuly have no sense of humor Gil, so rather than fight with you we will part ways now. Good night.

  94. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:56 pm

    As an ex-Cowboy, Dandy Don Meredith used to sing, in his color commentary for ABC’s “Monday Night Football,” when the issue was settled: “Turn out the lights…the party’s over…”

  95. Jim (Bmore) September 15, 2008 8:57 pm

    unreal…this is terrible, come on mets, wake up pleaseee

  96. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 8:58 pm

    Harry, what’s gotten into you?
    Damn, that’s why e-chats sometimes suck — you can’t hear a voice attached to the words. I’m not at all pissed.
    Well, I’m a pissed at the Mets, but…

  97. edfever September 15, 2008 8:59 pm

    And there goes another season…..

  98. Dan Gurney September 15, 2008 9:01 pm

    The feud between Carrie Underwood and Jessica Simpson is the biggest battle of nitwits since Hilary Duff and Lindsay Lohan feuded over Aaron Carter.
    Is it Sandy Koufax or is it Steve Carlon the Mets have one run and one hit after 6 innings?

  99. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:01 pm

    A guy with an 8-13 record and an ERA of over 4 is dominating us like this?

  100. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:01 pm

    Remember the cameras catching a guy supposedly sleeping in the Astrodome, then flipped the bird and Meredith, without missing a beat, saying, “Howard, that’s how we say we’re No. 1 down here.”-JD

  101. Annie Savoy - September 15, 2008 9:03 pm

    Mets bats seem to be AWOL tonight. Pedro didn’t get much help, did he?

  102. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:04 pm

    Pedro is done, and he did better than I thought he would. He pitched with a lot of heart. Can’t blame this on him. One hit won’t get it done against anybody.-JD

  103. Dan Gurney September 15, 2008 9:05 pm

    Oilers versus Raiders in 1974. I think an ABC producer shouted “Say “he thinks we’re number one” over the headsets to the announcers when the TV cameras showed the image”

  104. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:05 pm

    ed: Based on what Kevin Burkhardt reported on SNY tonight, David Wright might be kidding himself more than any other Met.
    Burkhardt said Wright told him he doesn’t even think about last September, partly because he’s now playing with “a different group of guys.”
    Uh, David, there are a few new faces and a new manager, but dud, you’re essentially playing with the same group of guys.
    And they’re again teetering on blowing it.

  105. Dan Gurney September 15, 2008 9:05 pm

    Meredith repeated the line quickly

  106. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:06 pm

    Dan: Priceless, isn’t it?-JD

  107. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:08 pm

    News flash!
    Hang on to your hats!
    Gary Cohen just announced that Bobby Parnell and Al Reyes are going to pitch simulated games tomorrow…
    Oooooooooooh, be still my beating heart.
    Isn’t that the kind of thing you have guys do immediately after they’re put on the roster, instead of sitting in the bullpen for two weeks with their arms collecting dust?

  108. Dan Gurney September 15, 2008 9:12 pm

    Yes. Unfortunately I had turned off the game earlier. It was a blowout. Saw the clip a few years later with the hand blacked out on some ABC anniversary show. By that time there was a lot of tension in the booth.

  109. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:12 pm

    Manuel sucks with the pen. Guy gets two outs. Nobody on base. Pull him Jerry. Maybe the next guy will suck.

  110. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:12 pm

    Gil: This is what you call hitting the bottom of the barrel?-JD

  111. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:15 pm

    Dan: I saw the first MNF Game. Jets at Browns. Homer Jones ran back a kick for a TD for the Browns. Joe Namath and Bill Nelsen were the quarterbacks. MNF was something special back then. All downhill after Cosell left.-JD

  112. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:16 pm

    JD: How is Parnell bottom of the barrel? He’s a prospect. And Reyes actually had the same save conversion rate last year as Billy Wagner.

  113. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:19 pm

    Gil: Was thinking about Reyes.-JD

  114. alex September 15, 2008 9:20 pm

    goodnight everyone, thanks for playing.

  115. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:20 pm

    Harry: After Duaner Sanchez’s performance, is now an appropriate time to yap to you about Omar not fixing the bullpen?

  116. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:22 pm

    This is just another guy who won’t be a Met next year.-JD

  117. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:23 pm

    hey, Jerry that lefty righty crap really works bud. you know Jerry, everybody but you knows when Duaner sucks after the first batter, but what the hell, you did the lefty righty thing didn’t you.

  118. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:23 pm

    JD: Could Reyes do any worse than anyone else we’re running out there?
    Could he be worse than Heilman?
    Than Sanchez?
    Than Feliciano?

  119. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:24 pm

    Gil: You got me. I surrender.-JD

  120. alex September 15, 2008 9:25 pm

    okay, so here’s my point.

    obviously if the mets all of a sudden come out and score 4-6 runs this inning then you bring in someone with experience.

    but lets, for argument’s sake, assume they don’t…why not give parnell a chance to pitch the bottom of the 8th?

    wouldn’t that be a better gauge then anything they’ll be able to glean from a simulated game tomorrow?

    also, why not pinch hit daniel murphy and then stick him at 2nd for half an inning?

  121. alex September 15, 2008 9:26 pm

    oh, well look at that…it appears as if half of my suggestions might be implemented.

  122. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:28 pm

    Gil, You should know that I have bitched about Omar for as long as I’ve posted here and on the rag site Delcos used to work for under every name I might add. that was my reference to you. So no Gil there would be no good time for you to yap to me about Omar. I’ve said it from the day he made his “big” move for Wise, and nothing else. You may of course yap to all the Omar lovers in the audience, with my approval and complete agreement but not to the late and not so great Harry Chiti on this point. You probably can yap to me about the Milledge trade, but I think time will prove me right on that one too. Milledge is looking like he is learning to hit, and if he would ever play on the grass vice the dirt he might become a decent outfielder some day.

  123. Annie Savoy - September 15, 2008 9:30 pm

    Why not let Bobby Parnell and Al Reyes pitch real games this week? I think they might do better than this bullpen. Wonder if either of them can hit? We are overstocked with pitchers who can do neither.

  124. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:34 pm

    13-12 is still a real possibility.

  125. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:35 pm

    As bad as the bullpen is, let’s not forget the offense took the night off.-JD

  126. edfever September 15, 2008 9:35 pm

    Gil- there fooling themselves and so is every other Mets fan who doesnt see the same exact thing happening again…..

    Omar’s biggest mistake was thining Sept was an abberration this is how this team responds to pressure its the core personality of the team. Sept. 07 and April 08 ( get off to a fast start) the talent is there but the mentality isn’t…..

  127. Ray Sadecki September 15, 2008 9:36 pm

    Its easy to beat on Omar now. In his defense, Who could have known Quality pitchers Like Heilman and Sanchez would turn into complete garbage? Wagner having a possible career ending injury in august? Hindsight is 20 20 as they say. He should have gotten more than Wise, though. No excuse for that. Maybe he belived the hype about Kunz being a big part of our pen in the second half.

  128. edfever September 15, 2008 9:39 pm

    D-Rod strikes again

  129. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:39 pm

    If Elvis was alive and a Mets’ fan, this is where he shoots the TV-JD

  130. Ray Sadecki September 15, 2008 9:39 pm

    got a laugh out of me there, John.

  131. edfever September 15, 2008 9:39 pm


    I was screaming for him to add a solid set-up man and their were plenty available

  132. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:40 pm

    Even Manny Acta knows that you take out a crummy reliever when he’s pitching bad, not when he’s pitching good. Did you see that Jerry? I’ve given up on 13-12 for tonight. Maybe Wednesday.

  133. edfever September 15, 2008 9:40 pm

    that was for Ray actually sorry

  134. Mackey Sasser September 15, 2008 9:40 pm

    Looks like Wright is giving A-Rod a run for his money for least clutch player in New York.

    At least we win at something!

  135. agee September 15, 2008 9:41 pm

    that had to be the biggest choke ive ever seen.

    is it time to starting thinking about the wildcard? not to whine but the phillies are not going to cool down anytime before the playoffs

  136. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:41 pm

    Ray: Laughing beats crying.-JD

  137. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:43 pm

    Hey Sadecki!!!! I know I ujsually agree with you but alas I must take exception tonight to a few of your points.
    You couldn’t expect much from Duaner after missing a year and a half.
    Wagner always sucks when it counts most so losing him in September was just replacing one piece of trash for another.
    Other than that, as usual we agree

  138. edfever September 15, 2008 9:43 pm

    Wildcard is insulting, Phils are laughing at us as chokers. This team is laying sown and dying disgraceful

  139. agee September 15, 2008 9:44 pm

    note that i say before the playoffs

  140. Ray Sadecki September 15, 2008 9:44 pm

    JD, So true. At least Parnell was good.

  141. agee September 15, 2008 9:45 pm

    edfever- it was only a 3 game lead this time, if we’re gonna choke again,it’d be nice to at least beat the phils in the playoffs.

  142. alex September 15, 2008 9:45 pm

    wow…color me shocked, i mean, just shocked.

    3 up and 3 down, hitting 96 on the gun with a nice change up.

    good thing manuel only waited 15 days to give parnell a chance.

  143. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:45 pm

    Parnell was good, but let’s remember the context in which he pitched. No pressure.-JD

  144. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:46 pm

    Good call JD. Heilman probably would have pitched good with a 5 run deficit.

  145. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:47 pm

    agee: Beat the Phillies? If they were to meet in a three-game series this weekend on a neutral field, who do you think would win?-JD

  146. Ray Sadecki September 15, 2008 9:47 pm

    Chiti, Yes Wagner was a choker, but at least he was better than what we got now. Sanchez, maybe your right, but what about Heilman? he isnt hurt. His changeup has deserted him for some reason. Once again, Does anybody know why Kunz is off the radar all of a sudden?

  147. alex September 15, 2008 9:48 pm

    agreed. but my point is he could have been pitching in low pressure spots 2 weeks ago. then at least maybe he might have been an option 2 innings ago when sanchez was giving up the game.

    as things stand now, they don’t know what parnell is capable of under pressure, and they probably won’t be able to find out.

    or they’ll just have to throw him into the fire and hope for the best.

    either way is not good strategy or smart baseball

  148. Annie Savoy - September 15, 2008 9:48 pm

    This game doesn’t deserve to be ‘In The Book” — G’night everyone, hope to see you tomorrow. It was a tough day all around, both here and in the Real World today.

  149. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:49 pm

    Harry: You’re right on about Duaner and Wagner, but I like trading Milledge.
    By the way, now we know why Parnell had yet to appear: he’s too effective.
    OK, it’s one garbage time inning, but they thrusted Eddie Kunz into the mix in August and Niese into the mix now, but treat Parnell with kid gloves?
    I don’t get that.
    The end of the trail is looking more and more bleak, everyone…

  150. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:49 pm

    The Phillies have their own major set of problems. They only swept the dying Brewers who we also recently swept.

  151. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:49 pm

    Alex: You’re right. I’ve been thinking it over the past couple of innings, and what would it have hurt? Probably nothing. -JD

  152. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:52 pm

    Harry: What problems does Philly have?
    Myers, Moyer and Hamels are all pitching well, they have a great bullpen, they’ve got the MLB leader in HRs and RBIs, a second baseman and left fielder with great power, a very solid outfield defense, good defense at third, too.
    They’re in prime position for overtaking us.

  153. edfever September 15, 2008 9:52 pm

    Parnell was lucky to get called up …. he was very shaky his last few outing in AAA

  154. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:53 pm

    Ladies and gentlemen, your first place New York Mets. At least for one more night. The lead is a half-game.-JD

  155. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 9:54 pm

    Good night, everyone.
    Better luck to us tomorrow.

  156. edfever September 15, 2008 9:55 pm

    good news soemthing to lift my spirits – I have a root canal tomorrow

  157. Ray Sadecki September 15, 2008 9:56 pm

    Hate to bring this up again, But where is Jose Reyes? If he dont wake up soon, Its over.

  158. ChiliGTC September 15, 2008 9:56 pm

    This team laid down like the bums that they are…..sick & tired of this Mets team. Nothing has changed from last year…

  159. Ray Sadecki September 15, 2008 9:57 pm

    Ed, Well at least you will get a shot to numb your pain tomorrow.

  160. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 9:57 pm

    Gil Watch them:
    Their pen other than Lidge is toast now. Burnded out like 07 Mets. Rollins has sucked since opening day. Pat the bat has become a 100 hitter the last month, third base is a bigger disaster than our second base. Kendrick is worse than Pedro lately. Victorino has been weaker than they had hoped. Howard has risen down the steetch but Utley has been as disapointing to them as wright has been to us in the clutch this year. The grass is not greener on the other side.

  161. Ray Sadecki September 15, 2008 9:58 pm

    The only thing missing this year is Ron Hall, But his team sucks worse than ours this year, so maybe he will give us a break this time.

  162. John Delcos September 15, 2008 9:59 pm

    Harry: All that you’re saying is true, but which team is dealing with the choke demon? It’s the Mets. I think the Phillies believe they can win. I’m not so sure the Mets are convinced of the same thing. Last year is very much alive in their minds.-JD

  163. ChiliGTC September 15, 2008 10:01 pm

    Harry – say what you want about the Phillies, but they don’t lay down and clearly smell blood in the water…this Mets team probably goes 3-10 the rest of the way!

  164. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 10:07 pm

    I agree they (the Phils) don’t lay down…..
    And I agree JD they don’t have the demons. They broke with them the day they let Wagner go. They believe they can win…But they are not as good as they were last September when everything was clicking for them. The Mets also have the Brewers going for them unless firing Yost leads to instant turn around. And hurricane Ike has also helped the Mets as the Astros are suddenly distracted and their amazing run looks over suddenly. It may be hard not to back into a playoff spot.

  165. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 10:08 pm

    Ron Hall is probably posting to himself on the rag’s web site.

  166. Gil in Savannah, Ga. September 15, 2008 10:14 pm

    Yeah, Harry, but if we make the playoffs, how deep could we go?

  167. ChiliGTC September 15, 2008 10:16 pm

    Harry – I still don’t agree…Mets had no heart in 2007 and now clearly have no heart in 2008. I see them going 3-10 the rest of the way and with that record, no way they back into the playoffs….if the team is toast and they continue this drop, I cannot see how Omar’s job is saved….

  168. Harry Chiti September 15, 2008 10:30 pm

    GTC: I hope omar is history. Gil.. If they make the playoffs you never know. Santana, Perez Pelfrey. rember the Cards won only 83 games and won WS in 06 and the 73 Mets barely had a winning record and beat the mighty Reds almost beat the A’s who were an excellent team. And of course my NY FOOTBALL GIANTS who we were told every night couldn’t beat Tampa and then we couldn’t beat Dallas and then we couldn’t beat Green Bay and of course we couldn’t beat New England . NY FOOTBALL GIANTS SUPER BOWL CHAMPS. So get in and you never never know!!!!!!

  169. dave September 15, 2008 11:54 pm

    The Mets are losing it again. Again it is pitching. Unlike last year when both starters and pen were dogs. It is mostly the pen.

    Santana has pitched well as has OP and mostly BigPelf.

    The pen is pretty useless. Altho Wags gives up bombs, he should be able to put away the nats and atlanta. Heilman got killed a month or so ago when he was the only one on the staff who had success. He looks done for the year.

    This team has too many situational bullpen guys and no one who can go three and give up only one or two for us. so we use most of the pen in one game cause they can’t pitch. Smith is young, Sanchez has nothing and neither do most of the others. So we bring in a cast off from a losing team and pin our post season hopes on him.

    We can still win but the starters need to go at least 7 and you have to hope the pen doesnt implode.

    Pedro did what you would expect 6 and 4. very mediocre numbers, but that is who he is now.

    I say put Niese out there. At least you have a chance. It may not work out, but you know what Pedro will give you which is not much.

  170. Delgado for MVP (formerly Who Needs Lohan) September 16, 2008 10:05 am

    The only good thing about watching the mets is that you never get too excited if they take a lead…

    On a brighter note, my office hired too smoking hot interns!!!!

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